When New York Giants co-owner John Mara announced in January that general manager Joe Schoen and head coach Brian Daboll would stay on for a fourth season, he was asked if the roster Schoen had built was better than the one he inherited in January of 2022.
“I’m not sure I am all that confident that it’s that much better,” was Mara’s candid, if somewhat befuddling, answer.
If things weren’t better, why was he maintaining the status quo?
“I certainly can’t justify it based on the records, but, again, based on my observation of how they work together, of how the players respond to them and how Joe (Schoen) is going about building the roster going forward, it’s my instinct and my strong belief that we are going to go in the right direction,” Mara said. “It’s hard for me to say we’re going in the right direction right now because we’ve been going backwards.”
Again, befuddling.
Fast forward to the present. The 2025 NFL Draft netted the Giants a player expected to be a dominant pass rusher in Abdul Carter and an exciting potential quarterback of the future in Jaxson Dart. Free agency brought players expected to help a defense that wasn’t good enough in 2024. Andrew Thomas returned from injury and is playing like an All-Pro, fortifying the offensive line.
Yet, the Giants are 2-11 after 13 games for the second straight season. Daboll is smoking cigars on his front porch and looking for a new job after having been fired. Defensive coordinator Shane Bowen was also fired.
Schoen still has a job. He also still has confidence that despite the product seeming to have gotten worse year over year after the surprising 2022 playoff season he can get the franchise turned around.
“I’m very confident in my staff, myself, and our ability to get this franchise back where it needs to go,” Schoen said. “There’s pieces in place. And I do have confidence in our ability and our process to find the next coach to lead the organization. And again, I truly believe in that process, and I know we’re going to get it right.”
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Schoen should have confidence in himself. If he didn’t, why take the job in the first place? The question is, should ownership continue to have confidence in Schoen after three straight seasons where the product has been unsatisfactory?
The Giants are 20-43-1 during Schoen’s tenure. Their winning percentage has decreased each year (.559 in 2022; .353 in 2023; .176 in 2024; .154 so far this season).
Schoen knows that being the Giants’ GM today does not mean he is not guaranteed to remain in that role beyond the end of this season.
“Ownership will evaluate the entire football operation at the end of the season as they should, as they should, and then we’ll go from there,” Schoen said this week.
The stay or go decision comes back to what ownership thinks about the personnel Schoen has put in place, whether they truly believe progress is being made, and whether they believe Schoen can actually “get this franchise back where it needs to go.”
So, let’s dive into a position-by-position comparison between the roster at the end of the 2021 and the one that the Giants have fielded during the 2025 season. Each position will have a ‘better or worse?’ grade. And, yes, those are subjective and I know some of you will get hung up on positional grades you disagree with. The focus, though, is the over-arching caliber of the roster as a whole.
Quarterback
2021 — Daniel Jones, Mike Glennon, Jake Fromm
2025 — Jaxson Dart, Jameis Winston, Russell Wilson
Of course we don’t know yet what Jaxson Dart will become. Early indications, though, are that if he stays healthy enough Dart will be the long-term answer at quarterback that Daniel Jones never quite proved to be. Is anyone really going to argue that Mike Glennon and Jake Fromm are better than Jameis Winston and Russell Wilson.
Better or worse in 2025? Clearly better. This, of course, is the most important position. If these position grades were weighted, perhaps extra points would be awarded for manipulating the draft board in a way that allowed the Giants to select Dart.
Running back
2021 — Saquon Barkley, Devontae Booker, Gary Brightwell, Elijhaa Penny, Cullen Gillaspia
2025 — Tyrone Tracy, Devin Singletary, Eric Gray, Cam Skattebo (IR)
Barkley makes the 2021 group more talented, but not better Barkley’s exit from the Giants was ugly and awkwardly handled, but not wrong considering where the Giants were at the time. With Tracy and Skattebo, Schoen has the kind of talented low-cost, first-contract backs he probably would have preferred all along:
Better or worse in 2025? The talent is worse in 2025 because there is no Barkley, but it’s not bad. It is also younger and far less expensive. I’m calling this one EVEN though I recognize that neither Skattebo nor Tracy will ever individually match what Barkley could do at his best.
Wide receiver
2021 — Kadarius Toney, Darius Slayton, David Sills, Sterling Shepard, John Ross, Dante Pettis, Collin Johnson, Kenny Golladay, Pharoah Cooper, Alex Bachman, C.J. Board
2025 — Malik Nabers (IR), Wan’Dale Robinson, Darius Slayton, Isaiah Hodgins, Jalin Hyatt, Gunner Olszewski, Beaux Collins (IR), Dalen Cambre (PS), Lil’Jordan Humphrey (former practice squad)
What a crazy collection of names on that 2021 list. Nabers, Robinson and the 2025 version of Slayton are all better than anyone on the 2021 roster.
Better or worse in 2025? Better. Easily.
Tight end
2021 — Evan Engram, Chris Myarick, Kyle Rudolph, Kaden Smith
2025 — Theo Johnson, Daniel Bellinger, Chris Manhertz, Thomas Fidone (IR)
The 2021 season was the last as a Giant for Engram, a 2017 first-round pick. He caught 46 passes in 15 games that season, and averaged 52.4 receptions per year with New York. Johnson has 42 receptions and 459 receving yards with four games to play. As much grief as Johnson gets for drops, his 5.9% drop rate is much better than Engram’s 2021 8.2%.
I will take Bellinger, Manhertz and Fidone over Myarick, Rudolph and Kaden Smith.
Better or worse in 2025? Better.
Offensive line
2021 Offensive tackle:
Andrew Thomas, Nate Solder, Matt Peart, Derrick Kelly
2025 Offensive tackle:
Andrew Thomas, Jermaine Eluemunor, Marcus Mbow, James Hudson
2021 Guard:
Matt Skura, Will Hernandez, Wes Martin, Shane Lemieux, Ben Bredeson
2025 Guard:
Jon Runyan Jr., Greg Van Roten, Aaron Stinnie
2021 Center:
Billy Price, Nick Gates
2025 Center:
John Michael Schmitz, Austin Schlottmann
The Giants’ offensive line is playing at a higher overall level than any Giants’ offensive line in quite some time.
Better or worse in 2025? Better
Defensive tackle
2021 — Dexter Lawrence, Raymond Johnson, David Moa, Trent Harris, Woodrow Hamilton, Korey Cunningham, Leonard Williams, Danny Shelton
2025 — Dexter Lawrence, Rakeem Nunez-Roches, Roy Robertson-Harris, Darius Alexander, Chauncey Golston, D.J. Davidson, Elijah Chatman (PS)
The presence of Leonard Williams on that 2021 roster makes this a no-brainer. Traded by Schoen in 2023, Williams has yet to be adequately replaced. Alexander, a third-round pick, has been Schoen’s biggest swing at adding talent to this position since trading Williams. That has yet to pan out, though there have been flashes.
Better or worse in 2025? Worse. And failing to adequately prioritize one of the most important positions in football is one of the black marks against Schoen.
Edge defender
2021 — Oshane Ximines, Elerson Smith, Lorenzo Carter, Azeez Ojulari, Quincy Roche, Carter Coughlin, Cam Brown
2025 — Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Abdul Carter, Victor Dimukeje, Tomon Fox (PS)
Just read the names. Do I have to explain?
Better or worse in 2025? Better. About a galaxy better.
Inside linebacker
2021 — Tae Crowder, Reggie Ragland, Jaylon Smith, Bernardrick McKinney, Blake Martinez, Justin Hilliard
2025 — Bobby Okereke, Micah McFadden (IR), Darius Muasau (IR), Chris Board (IR), Neville Hewitt, Demetrius Flannigan-Fowles, Swayze Bozeman, Zaire Barnes
Blake Martinez played only three 2021 games before landing on IR. If Okereke was still the player he looked like in 2022, this would clearly tilt toward the 2025 group. He isn’t. Neither one of these groups was good enough. Okereke looked like a great free-agent signing in 2023, but has not played to that level since.
Better or worse in 2025? Does it really matter. Let’s just call it even.
Cornerback
2021 — James Bradberry, Jarren Williams, Darnay Holmes, Adoree’ Jackson, Rodarius Williams, Aaron Robinson, Keion Crossen, Darqueze Dennard, Sam Beal
2025 — Paulson Adebo, Cor’Dale Flott, Dru Phillips, Tae Banks, Art Green (IR), Korie Black, Nic Jones, Jarrick Bernard-Converse, Rico Payton
James Bradberry was a Pro Bowler in 2020. He wasn’t quite as good in 2021, but the 2025 group doesn’t have anyone as productive. Paulson Adebo was expected to be, but hasn’t ben.
Better or worse in 2025? Worse. Bradberry makes the 2021 group better. Considering the resources Schoen has poured into the cornerback position ($54 million over three years for Adebo, a first-round pick on Banks, and third-round picks on Flott and Phillips the poor 2025 cornerback play is an embarrassment.
Safety
2021 — Xavier McKinney, Logan Ryan, Jabrill Peppers, Julian Love, Steven Parker, Nate Ebner, J.R. Reed
2025 — Jevon Holland, Tyler Nubin, Dane Belton, Beau Brade, Anthony Johnson (PUP)
The 2021 season was McKinney’s best as a Giant as he had five interceptions in Patrick Graham’s scheme. Logan Ryan was nearing the end of his career, Julian Love was not yet a starter, and Jabrill Peppers played in just six games.
Still, McKinney’s big season makes that group far better than the disappointingly unproductive group the Giants are playing in 2025.
Better or worse in 2025? Worse. I can still make a case for why moving on from McKinney and Love were the right decisions at the time. Still, this position is another embarrassment for Schoen. McKinney and Love are far better than the players Schoen has tried to replace them with.
Specialists
Punter
2021 — Riley Dixon
2025 — Jamie Gillan
Placekicker
2021 — Graham Gano
2025 — Gano (IR), Jude McAtamney, Younghoe Koo
Long-snapper
2021 — Casey Kreiter
2025 — Casey Kreiter
Better or worse in 2025? Worse. The difference, of course, being that Gano was at the height of his brilliance in 2021. Now, the placekicking situation is a mess.
Final tally
Better: 5 | Worse: 4 | Even: 2
Big Blue View’s Tony DelGenio passed along the following numbers from PFF. They do not correspond exactly to positions, but they do give some context to what the Giants do better, and worse, in 2025 than back in 2021. I thought they were valuable. Here they are:
- Passing: Better (+14.7)
- Pass blocking: Better (+16.0)
- Receiving: Better (+2.2)
- Running: Better (+19.1)
- Run blocking: Worse (-4.2)
- Run defense: Worse (-6.9)
- Tackling: Worse: (-27.7)
- Pass rush: Better (+7.9)
- Coverage: Worse (-13.0)
- Special Teams: Better (+12.6)
Final thoughts
When Daboll’s firing was announced, ownership’s statement in regards to keeping Schoen in place said “We feel like Joe has assembled a good young nucleus of talent.”
Schoen argued on Tuesday that “there are pieces here” and the Giants need to figure out “Why aren’t we maximizing what we have?”
Yes, there are pieces. There is a franchise left tackle (Andrew Thomas) and a star defensive tackle (Dexter Lawrence), both of whom were drafted by Schoen’s predecessor, Dave Gettleman.
There is quarterback Jaxson Dart and wide receiver Malik Nabers. Both were drafted by Schoen, but believed to have been pushed for strongly by Daboll. So, does Schoen actually get the credit for them being Giants?
The GM gets credit for the Brian Burns trade. He gets credit for drafting Kayvon Thibodeaux, though it is arguable whether he has been everything a fifth overall pick in the draft should be. The GM gets credit for bringing in players that have helped establish a functional offensive line, though position coach Carmen Bricillo has to share in that.
Schoen gets credit for finding Tracy and Skattebo on Day 3 of the draft to replace Barkley. A number of other Day 3 picks (Daniel Bellinger, Dane Belton, Micah McFadden, Theo Johnson, Darius Muasau and perhaps Marcus Mbow) are useful players. Day 2 picks like Wan’Dale Robinson, John Michael Schmitz and Cor’Dale Flott are all currently having their best seasons.
Is that enough, aside from fancy modern technology in the draft room, to show for four offseasons worth of work? Unless, of course, the belief that the plethora of underperforming young players on the roster were not poorly evaluated but rather poorly coached ends up being borne out?
I think the position-by-position review above shows that while the Giants have added a potential franchise quarterback, a No. 1 wide receiver and built a functional offensive line, they have largely spun their wheels in terms of improving the overall quality of the 53-man roster.
There are some who believe that Schoen’s performance in his Tuesday press conference, where his favorite phrase was “I understand the question,” was disqualifying and he should be fired because of it.
I think that is nonsense. What Schoen did on Tuesday drew some Internet mockery, but it wasn’t close on the embarrassment meter to the level of Joe Judge’s 11-minute answer to a question in a post-game press conference.
Giants’ Universe right now features an angry fan base and a bloodthirsty media out for their pounds of flesh, and their page views. The only thing Schoen was going to say Tuesday that would have satisfied anyone is “I am resigning effective immediately as GM of the New York Giants.”
Schoen’s two-person jury of John Mara and Steve Tisch will weigh the evidence, and it won’t include a forgettable press conference. It will include four years that have featured more losing than anyone wanted. It will include a large body of roster-building work that is filled with good and bad decisions. It will include a review of why and how so many talented players who are having success elsewhere have been jettisoned, and then not adequately replaced. It will include behind the scenes conversations and thoughts on how Schoen goes about his business that none of us are privy to.
What will happen? I don’t know. A case can be made that there has been progress, and a tear-down is the wrong approach. If there wasn’t at least some talent, how does a team even get the opportunity to blow five double-digit leads? That team has to have the ability to establish those leads in order to blow them. A case can also be made that there should have been more progress, and that the leap forward this organization needs to take is not going to happen with Schoen in charge of personnel.
At some point, the “process” Schoen always seems to be so proud of and the fact that he is right that there are some good pieces in place won’t be enough to save Schoen’s job. Will that be when this season ends?
The Giants have four games left. The next three are against Washington, Minnesota, and Las Vegas, teams with a combined 9-27 record. If Schoen wants the argument that the Giants’ talent is better than its performance argument to hold up, he had better hope the team wins at least two of those games.
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