John Latini asks: When is the jury out on the signings of Holland and Adebo? I feel Holland does nothing on the field to help win games and Adebo has been out half the season and not helping either. These are CB1 and Safety 1 players we signed for a lot of money. Yet, no returns on those investments.
Ed says: John, what were your expectations for these players?
Jevon Holland has not had the game-changing impact that might have been hoped for. He doesn’t have an interception. Well, he had five in 60 games over his first four seasons, so he has never exactly been a ball magnet. He has averaged .43 pass breakups per game for his career, and this year he averages .44. He averages 4.93 tackles per game for his career, and this year he is at 4.3.
This is the player Holland is. For what it’s worth, Pro Football Focus and Pro Football and Sports Network see different things when they grade Holland. PFF grades him at 57.3 overall, a career-worst. PFSN grades his 12th among 93 qualifying safeties, in-between two-time All-Pros Antoine Winfield of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Kyle Hamilton of the Baltimore Ravens.
Beauty, I guess, is in the eye of the beholder. To my eyes, Holland has not played up to the level of the investment the Giants made. If you want to say he isn’t Xavier McKinney or Julian Love, I won’t argue.
I was a big fan of the Paulson Adebo signing. I am not going to criticize a guy for getting hurt. I wish I had an explanation for why his production (no interceptions, four passes defensed in seven games) is down from the last two years with the New Orleans Saints (7 interceptions, 28 passes defensed in 22 games) is down. He should be a better player than what we have seen thus far.
Bob Donnelly asks: A pleasant aspect of Sunday’s game was the performance of the O line. For the most part Winston had a clean pocket to operate from and there were running lanes for the backs. In your view when did the O line “turn the corner” and begin to function at an acceptable level? Some believe the line is better with Schlottmann at center in place of JMS. Do you agree?
Ed says: Bob, the reality of the answer to that question is that the offensive line was playing at a perfectly acceptable level last season when Andrew Thomas got hurt. The depth wasn’t there, other injuries followed, and everything fell apart.
It is really the same story in reverse this year. When Thomas came back and began playing full-time again, things fell back into place. There is some better depth this season with Marcus Mbow (not James Hudson) and Austin Schlottmann.
No, I do not buy the argument that the Giants are better with Schlottmann at center than with John Michael Schmitz. Schlottmann is a quality backup and the Giants are fortunate to have him. The reality is that many fans decided in 2023 that Schmitz was a bust and are refusing to acknowledge the year over year improvement that the young man had made.
His Pro Football and Sports Network Impact Score has risen each year — 67.7 in 2023, 77.8 last year, 79.4 this year. he has improved every year as a pass blocker. His Pro Football Focus pass-blocking scores have gone from 26.9 as a rookie, to 50.2 last year to a solid 63.2 this year. He has allowed one sack, nine total pressures and has a career-best 98.4 pass-blocking efficiency score.
He is not a mauling run blocker and could use upgraded guard play around him, but the arrow is pointing in the right direction for JMS.
Pat Lam asks: Not sure how the Brian Daboll – Wink Martindale relationship led to the unceremonious breakup, but what do you think the chances are that he returns? The NY Giants have the personnel to be an aggressive, attack the QB defense, but seem not to take that path.
Ed says: Pat, I don’t think it is as simple as ‘Daboll is gone, now Wink can be brought back.’ How many bridges did Martindale burn on his way out the door? I can’t imagine the GM is still a fan. I don’t know if he alienated ownership? Who will the head coach be next season? I think the chances are slim to none, maybe just none.
I agree wholeheartedly that the current defensive coordinator needs to be replaced. He is not coming close to getting the best out of the players he has. In fact, too many players the Giants invested heavily in have regressed. I don’t know that there is much point in making a change now, but the Giants need a defensive coordinator who can teach, develop and motivate. They don’t currently have that.
Kölnerbigblue asks: Ed, Can you or your team provide 3 examples of teams whose performance improved as a result of releasing a head coach mid-season? My gut tells me it’s a feel good PR move but some data would be useful.
Ed says: Kölner, here you go:
- In 2008, Mike Singletary replaced Dick Nolan when the San Francisco 49ers were 2-5. They went 5-4 the rest of the way.
- In 2010, the Dallas Cowboys were 1-7 when Jason Garrett replaced Wade Phillips. They went 5-3 the rest of the season.
- Leslie Frazier took over a 3-7 Minnesota Vikings team from Brad Childress in 2010. He guided them to a 3-3 record over the final six games.
- In 2018, Gregg Williams took over a 2-5-1 Cleveland Browns team from Hue Jackson and went 5-3.
- In 2022, Steve Wilks took over a 1-4 Carolina Panthers team from Matt Rhule. He went 6-6 the remainder of the season.
- In 2023, Antonio Pierce took over a 3-5 Las Vegas Raiders team from Josh McDaniels. He went 5-4 in nine games.
So, turnarounds do happen. Not always. Look the interim head coach can’t completely change the roster midseason. He can’t blow up the entire coaching staff. He can’t throw out the offensive and defensive playbooks and start from scratch. He can change the expectations. He can change the message players hear. He can change the energy.
Yes, sometimes the change can be a PR move. Sometimes, it just becomes obvious there is no point in going any farther without making a change. The reasons, and the results, always differ.
Jimmy Siegel asks: The biggest mystery to me is why a head coach who knew he was hanging by a thread, and now another head coach who’s basically auditioning for the giants coaching job and for 31 other teams—continued and continue to hitch themselves to a clearly incompetent defensive coordinator? There is literally no argument that can be made for Shane Bowen’s performance as DC. None. So why would Daboll and now Kafka jeopardize their jobs by sticking with him? Is it possible Daboll was under the illusion that as long as he showed he was developing Dart he’d be safe and he’d deal with Bowen in the off season? Was he afraid that after basically firing Wink, firing another coordinator in the middle of the season would look bad? As far as Kafka, here he is in the midst of the most important 7 games of his life — games that will likely determine his future in the NFL — and he’s tying himself to what has to be one of the worst defensive coordinators in football. Just don’t get it. Help me out here.
Ed says: Jimmy, I think I have been clear that Brian Daboll made a mistake by refusing to take one of many off-ramps he had to replace Shane Bowen. Why he chose to die on that hill I don’t know.
I also don’t know that I can say the same about Kafka. He has made clear that he had little to no involvement with the defensive coaches before becoming head coach. He doesn’t really know them, or their work. So, you are asking him to sit in judgment of a guy he really doesn’t have an opinion of.
I think that Kafka, in his own way, is trying to make it clear that players have to take some responsibility for why things have gone the way they have gone. Perhaps in his mind immediately firing the defensive coordinator would be taking players off the hook. I won’t be surprised if Kafka fires Bowen before the season is over. Or, if he brings in someone he trusts as a defensive consultant. It is clear that Bowen is not maximizing the talent he has available.
Ray Kochert asks: Jordan Ranaan of ESPN wrote that Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell would have a bigger role in the head coach search. Is this an subtle admission by John Mara that he realizes he has done a terrible job in the selection of head coaches in the past 10 years. Or, is the cancer catching up to him?
Ed says: Ray, I am not sure it is either of those things.
I need to say that I have heard the same thing Ranaan has heard. You can expect both of those men to have bigger voices in the process than they did the last time. I know mention of Chris Mara freaks out some Giants fans. No one seems to know exactly what his role is, but he is part of ownership so he has a seat at the table, and he is John’s brother so he has access to the ultimate decision-maker and a voice.
I think, clearly, GM Joe Schoen is — at least for now — leading this process. Ownership allowed Schoen to hire Daboll, the coach of his choosing, in 2022. That is not happening this time. Schoen will have a say, but ownership will make this decision.
As for John Mara’s health status, I don’t know. It is possible he needs more support than in the past from the people close to him, but I can’t say that with any authority.
Mike Eversman asks: I was disappointed to learn that Carter needed to be disciplined for off field infractions and not surprised to learn Daboll had apparently let stuff with him slide. Can you explain how the punishment by Kafka – benching Carter for a single defensive series – is actually punishment? Why would that make an impact? Is it meant to be symbolic and to send a message more than anything? Doesn’t seem like much to me. Thanks.
Ed says: Mike, did you want to watch Abdul Carter sit out the entire half while Tomon Fox played? I didn’t. Neither did the interim head coach who has a very small seven-game window to try and show that he deserves to be an NFL head coach.
Others may disagree, but I think the number of snaps Carter was held out for didn’t matter. The message of responsibility was delivered. The punishment was the embarrassment of the situation being a national story. It was Carter feeling like he had to take to social media, and approach a national reporter, to defend himself. It was Carter having to stand in front of the New York/New Jersey media on Wednesday explaining himself.
Bruce Noble asks: Ed, in your most recent Mail Bag response regarding why the Giants kept Bowen, you suggested that it might be because of the defensive unit not knowing Kafka. Don’t you think it would be a worse situation if they replaced the DC now, and then do what with him at the end of the year? Either he’s a lame duck because the new HC wants to bring in “his own” DC, or the new HC will have to accept that the DC was already selected. Seems to me we’ve been here before when doing both GM/HC replacement. That could also limit the number of quality HC candidates interested in coming to the Giants if they knew that the DC was already in place. The only reason I would replace the DC now is if I already expected to give the HC job to Kafka next year, and I didn’t want the first-year HC to make that decision. I doubt they have made that commitment to Kafka, but if the HC job is truly open beyond this season, wouldn’t it just make sense to let the new HC have input on the new coordinators?
Ed says: Bruce, I think you misunderstand how this works. Every coach on the staff right now is already a lame duck. If the Giants bring in a new head coach, they are ALL getting fired, anyway, and the new head coach will select his own coaching staff. Maybe one or two of the current coaches will end up being retained, but that will be the new coach’s decision. The new coach is not going to be forced to accept the current coordinators or any of the coaching staff.
The other part of this is that with six games left in the season, the Giants would not bring in a defensive coordinator from outside the organization. You can’t do that now. There is no time to install an entirely new defensive system. You would get an interim guy who is currently on the defensive staff calling the shots for the next few weeks.
Chuck Ransford asks: I won’t pretend like I know what it looks like to be a defensive coordinator on the day-to-day. Could the lack of a mid-season Shane Bowen firing come from an idea that there’s no one in-house to promote to run the defense in the interim?
Ed says: Chuck, that could be part of the calculus. Defensive backs coach Marquand Manuel and defensive line coach Andre Patterson have been coordinators. I know that the Giants want Mike Kafka to make his own decisions. Let’s see if he stays with Bowen the rest of the season. Honestly, at this point, is changing coordinators going to make a difference?
Jesse Brooks asks: Smq2012 commented recently, “Ridiculous. How many teams missing their QB1, RB1, WR1, WR2, CB1, LB 1 or 2 depending on how you view McFadden would be in a position to win with a fourth quarter lead? It’s on coaching that we keep blowing these leads but if the roster was as bad as you all keep saying it is we wouldn’t have those leads in the first place. Local media has had it out for Schoen for several years now and they’ve brainwashed everyone through daily articles slandering him.”
I have been pondering this myself for several weeks…Most of the games I watch the Giants look like the better team for 3 and a half quarters. If the Giants lack talent because of Joe Schoen then how come we are beating good teams for 3 and a half quarters?
Ed says: Jesse, this is the conundrum. To blow all of these leads, you have to be good enough to get those leads. So, is it players or is it coaching? Giants’ ownership made it clear they believe the team as currently constructed should be better than it is. I 100% agree with that. Several of the losses this season would have been victories if players had been put into better positions.
Now, Schoen is not above reproach. We’ve been over his mistakes too many times to count. In Sunday’s loss, Cor’Dale Flott, Deonte Banks, and Jalin Hyatt all failed to make critical plays. Those are all Schoen draft picks. A fourth Schoen draft pick, Abdul Carter, was disciplined for missing a practice and then did nothing when he did play. That game was not about coaching mistakes or the players who were missing. That game was about the players on the field not making plays that were there to be made, and probably should have been made.
Florian Cortese asks: Here’s a way too early cart before the horse type of question. If Dabs had not been let go and Mike Kafka got a HC gig with a different team, the Giants would be awarded compensatory draft capital under the Rooney Rule. But what if as “interim” HC, Kafka gets a HC job with another team either because he didn’t get the Giants job or because he chose not to stay in NY, would he still be considered under the Rooney Rule?
Ed says: Florian, my understanding is that for Rooney Rule purposes Kafka would be treated as a coordinator. When you think about it, once the season is over there is no “interim head coach” any longer. So, yes, provided that he is still under contract the Giants would receive draft compensation if he were to get a head-coaching job elsewhere.
Ted Pietz asks: I have noticed more and more players wearing Guardian Caps during NFL games, including former Giant Jabrill Peppers.
Has anyone asked whether NFL quarterbacks are considering wearing them? What is your sense around the players’ reactions to them aside from aesthetics? Clearly, this could be an important consideration for Jaxson Dart going forward in terms of helping to ensure his game day availability and more importantly, quality of life after football.
Ed says: Ted, I don’t know if any quarterbacks have considered wearing them. Any player has the option of doing so. Quarterback is NOT among the positions required to wear Guardian Caps during practices.
Rob Stolzer asks: I assume that when Schoen came in, he brought a lot of his own people with him. Does that mean he started things from scratch, or did he take what Gettleman had already built and add onto it? If the Giants did decide to fire Schoen, what does that do the in-house network when it comes to scouting, specifically regarding the draft and free agents? In the end, I’m wondering if bringing in a new GM can actually set a teamback a bit, since an internal structure may have to be rebuilt somewhat.
Ed says: Rob, it’s largely what happens when any new boss comes in to any business. Some people get maintained, some get replaced, the new boss brings in people he knows, trusts, and who he believes he is philosophically aligned with.
There is always some tear-down, rebuild and a learning curve for everyone as the new GM learns which people on the existing staff he can and cannot work with, and as the new staff gets used to the way the GM wants things done.
Doug Mollin asks: There was a thread on the Feed this week about Mara not caring about the Giants winning or losing because he makes a pile of money, win or lose. There’s no desire or motivation to win.
Put yourself in Mara’s position, wildly rich, money flowing in whether you win or lose. The value of the franchise is growing every year.
But even with that, would it not be more fun to have a good team? A team that wins and generates excitement? Less headaches from the media, the fans.
I have to imagine he’s a football fan to some degree — why not try and build a team that can win and have fun? Instead of allowing your team to be a laughing stock?
Isn’t that also a little embarrassing for him? I have to imagine these owners are a bunch of competitive, egocentric, narcissists. Who wants to be the guy that is always getting the football snatched away when you go to kick it?
Mara is not good at his job. That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Having inept family members in key positions doesn’t help things.
But all things being equal, I think Mara’s life is a lot more enjoyable when the Giants are winning.
You agree a few things can all be equal — Mara is rich whether they win or lose, Mara has not been good at his job, Mara wants to win?
Ed says: Doug, isn’t every business owner’s life better when his product is good? When people are happy with it, and buying? Yes, the Giants are one of the richest franchises in the world and the struggles of the last decade or so haven’t changed that a whole lot. Still, don’t you think the Mara and Tisch families would sell more tickets, more merchandise and make more money if they were winning?
The Giants are the Mara family business. Of course John Mara wants to win. I don’t “know” him, but I do see him at times at home games and at practices. The look on his face when things are going poorly is all you need to see to know how much he cares.
Ownership has not been able to get it right for a while now. We know that. I don’t want to hear, though, that it is because Mara doesn’t care. That is as far from the truth as could be.
Ronald Buccheim asks: Ed, what do you make of Daniel Jones’s resurrection, after he was almost universally considered a mere journeyman at best? Why was he apparently so misjudged? Do you think he’s the type of quarterback who can thrive only behind a good offensive line? (But he was very good in 2022 without a particularly good line.) Was he a victim of poor coaching and constant coaching changes? Or did it just take him a while to regain his form after knee surgery and a year of inactivity? In general, do you think the importance of offensive lines is underestimated in evaluating quarterbacks? Finally, do you believe he’s better than you thought when he left the Giants?
Ed says: Ronald, situation always matters. I don’t have to repeat the various ways in which the Giants made a mess of everything during Jones’ time in New York. Jones is in a great situation with a terrific offensive line, great running back, fantastic young tight end, good receivers and a play-caller who is showing he understands how to play to Jones’ strengths. A year ago, I thought he was playing for a coach and an organization he knew no longer thought he was the right guy. It’s hard to perform in that circumstance.
I have always thought Jones was capable of better play than what he showed most of the time with the Giants. He is clearly having the best stretch of his career right now, and I’m happy for him.
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